"Nobody harasses Ginny" they say, mentioning her relentlessly with unsolicited opinions.

:facepalm_h1:

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So FYI, Queertube chimed in with a massive thread mentioning Ginny (who is very vocal about being constantly under a barrage of unsolicited mentions) telling her to chill about the fact Peertube has absolutely nothing in terms of anti abuse tools, without providing any actual actions they'll do to address the situation.

"Better to have a tool on which you can be harassed than no tool at all".

Let's agree to disagree on that. We've got plenty of harassment-enabling tools already.

We good.

@skiant to be fair @queertube made a 3-post thread.. not that massive.

That being said i understand Ginny didn't want to be mention in said thread but it was in response to a comment i made after she said peertube was lacking anti harassment tools. My bad.

Anyway i felt like Ginny was kinda 'rude' with framasoft. They were listening and aknowledging their fault asking for ideas on how to work on this topic and her only answer was 'sorry won't work for free'

@skiant @queertube
Like i told her, even though work should indeed be paid, helping isn't forbidden... 😔

I think it would have been more profitable to everyone to exchange nicely on the topic. Ideas, suggestions, names of people who could help, tools already implemented elsewhere...

@jared @skiant @queertube I would add some points :
- The point of peertube is to offer a federated video service, that's it. Because framasoft takes people in consideration, they said they were looking for tools to help moderation prevent harassment.

- framasoft has never said they won't address the situation, they said they there is a discussion on github to find tools against harassment.

1/2

@jared @skiant @queertube

- You're on a social media, with public interactions. If you poste something public, then you must assume to have answers to, even more when you are answering badly to people trying to get a solution to your problem.

2/2

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@jared @skiant @queertube how is that rude? how is expecting someone to work for free not rude? why is planning an entire social media site without planning for harassment being viewed as okay?

these are all rhetorical.

asking victims of harassment and threats to be kind when someone doesn’t make plans to keep those kinds of folks off of their site is ridiculous.

@gingerrroot
I said it multiple times : work should be paid. That doesn't prevent people to help, suggest tools or names of qualified people.

I'm sure we can agree that 2 or 3 hints are not 'work' .

I was wondering if 'rude' was too strong a word in english. I guess it actually is. I'm sorry if i hurt her or anyone. I just felt she could have a little nicer way to answer to people who were actually listening to her request and willing to take actions to improve their solution

@gingerrroot
A solution that, btw, was created by people not getting paid for their work on it for more than 2 years.

@gingerrroot
That part was in response to the work-for-free issue. So it sounds at least a little relevant.

What about my previous toot. Not relevant either ?

@gingerrroot @jared You ask a rethological question about being paid or not, but when we answer about it, it becomes non relevant ?

@jared ok but "we worked on this for free so we feel entitled to ask others to work for free" is not really a great take @gingerrroot

@balrogboogie @gingerrroot i do realize. I pointed it out already that work should be paid, BUT it has to be takent in consideration that peertube was made by people willing to give an alternative to people. They're not a rich corporation that can afford a consultat or whatever. And once again i would never ask Ginny to give them a full solution on a plate, just a few hints or recommandations maybe :)

@jared helping would have been giving them advice on how to plan for this (which should have ALREADY been done when planning a social media site based off of one that is well known for harassment) which would be work.

again. expecting victims of harassment and threats to be kind when someone building a social media platform does not think about harassment is ridiculous. they should have planned **from the beginning** on how to prevent or subdue harassment.

@gingerrroot
Ok so in your opinion we should throw away peertube ? You know things CAN be fixed right ?

@gingerrroot i'm not saying it was suggested. I'm just asking if it's what you propose... Since it's clearly suggested in your toots that it's too late to fix that issue i'm asking what should we do then ?

@jared “it’s clearly suggested it’s too late to fix”

again

where did i say this 🙃

stop putting words in people’s mouths and making assumptions.

ginny states what should be done: find and hire and expert in social media/ online harassment.

@gingerrroot i'm not putting words in anyone's mouth i'm just telling you that the WAY those words are written, the attitude under the words SUGGEST (that's the word i used) another (not-so-hidden) message

@jared you are. you said the answers supplied basically told them to fuck off.

again. stop making assumptions and go off of what is written instead of assuming the tone is rude or mean.

@gingerrroot ok let's just ignore the fact that tone and attitude matter...

even thought, again, 'i won't work for free' doesn't seems like the nicest (nor appropriate) answer to someone asking you kindly for help/hints after recognizing they messed up. Can we at least agree on that ?

To be honest i feel like we're fighting a useless fight since we both agree that peertube SHOULD have those anti-harassment tools.

@jared @gingerrroot this is coming off as some bullshit tone-policing as a way of villifying the person who pointed out, at your own admission, faults in PeerTube's design.

Please keep in mind the loaded context of telling a woman she's being "too rude" when she's justifiably upset.

@hache @gingerrroot i can assure you it has nothing to do with her gender. i promise it's irrelevant here to me. But you're right : i shouldn't have forgotten that women still get a huge amount of crap everytime they don't fit whatever old sick model some people want them to fit in.

for the record i wasn't trying to make her look evil or whatever... i just don't feel like being right allows anyone to be rude. I always try not to...

i've apoligized to Ginny, i realize i've been wrong tonight.

@jared @hache you can’t guarantee that given even women can perpetuate misogyny without actively intending to do that.

i think you need to rethink and reflect and please do not tag me further

@gingerrroot last time i tag you i promise

I realize i was wrong tonight yet i ask you to believe me when i say i didn't do what i did ~because~ Ginny is a woman.

I hope we'll meet again here and have a nicer chat than this one so i won't end up labelled 'asshole' in your mind.

Once again, i'm sorry and i'll try to to better. Thank you for the time your took to help me understand i was part of the problem for this one

@gingerrroot @jared And again, Framasoft is a non-profit organization living with donations. They were just able to pay the developper, but there are indeed people working for free for peertube. Professional developers take on their free time to help creating peertube. Why people could not take on their free time to help prevent harassment ?

@gingerrroot Hum, saw a little late you were willing no more answers, sorry.

@gingerrroot
Ok they made a mistake not thinking it ahead but why don't you even want them to try and do better ?

@gingerrroot that was juste heavily implied by your attitude : ever since that issue was raised by Ginny she clearly made no effort to help framasoft fix it. She told them 'hire someone' and that's it. And you're basically telling me 'they should already have done it' so it looks to me like, once again, peertube is already broken beyond repair to you and that them asking for advices is unappropriate

@jared lmao maybe learn to not make such bad spirited assumptions about people you know nothing about

ginny stated that she can’t afford to help for free and also stated separately that she does not know french and it would likely not be a useful partnership even if they could pay her

and yes they should have already done it!!! how do yo plan a site without thinking about it researching harassment?

@USBloveDog if you are building a social media site and do not even think to research about harassment you’re in the wrong, not someone pointing out that you haven’t planned for it.

goodbye

@gingerrroot @jared But they did it... Even if there is still a discussion about it on github, they did it. They planned moderation tools, and they're open to do more if people agree to give them advices.

@gingerrroot I understand what you're saying and I mostly agree with you, but let's not forget that PeerTube is a collaborative project mostly done by volunteers and Framasoft a small non-profit (ie., another bunch of volunteers).

@jared @skiant @queertube

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