Y'all dunking on the programming languages that are easy to pick up aren't funny.
Your gatekeeping tactics are obvious, tiring and irrelevant.
@skiant then go learn something HARD, like obj-C..better yet, port it! I write FPC and FBC/qb64. some python, some x64 assembler.
@snazzyfrazz If that was an attempt at sarcasm, that was a terrible one.
If it wasn't, fuck off.
@skiant you first.
@skiant Seriously, let people use the languages they find easy! At least for their usage.
It's not like they're limiting by using an "inferior" language, it's extremely difficult for a language to be limiting.
@skiant what about people who assume that everyone here is a programmer?
@hal They belong in the bin with the rest of the idiots
@skiant I think an issue that leads to this is that people seem to learn better on languages that permit mistakes, but in the long term or in "serious" projects those mistakes end up being catastrophes. So it's a "feature" when people are learning, but a "bug" once they've learned.
I think a more productive route than just saying "don't learn PHP/JS" would be asking how to balance this; have a "learning mode" that's permissive, but once people have their feet they stop using that mode?
@skiant Like with Rust: as an experienced dev, I was comfortable with the compiler constantly going NOPE at me, and I appreciated it for its rigour. But if I were learning programming from zero, that would have been very discouraging. Python 3 strikes a good balance, certainly better than Python 2 or, imo, PHP/JS, but it's still prone to serious technical debt in large projects "as a result" of its laxity and forgiveness towards errors and plainly bad code.
As a self-taught programmer, one thing I struggle with is moving into intermediate things like design patterns, architecture, etc.
The problems with this are that the concepts aren't *that* difficult, but they're 1) named poorly and 2) explained poorly with more jargon.
This isn't helped by the natural tendency of a lot of developers to:
- Shy away from giving documentation its due
- If documenting, explaining "what" but not "why"
- Being condescending towards people who don't know yet
@cathal The "learning mode" you're describing is what's called a career.
You learn, as you keep working, how to avoid the foot-guns and how to use tooling that will prevent these.
@skiant I absolutely despise that too
@skiant I wildly unoriginal too - I was reading recently about programmers dunking on COBOL over assembly, and assembly over hand written sheets of hex. It's been going on since the 1950s. Get over yourselves :p
@skiant 🍵