👏 stop 👏 inviting 👏 rms 👏 to 👏 conferences 👏

he has nothing of value to say!! Maybe the shit he said was valuable in the 80s and 90s but WE ARE NOT AT THIS POINT ANYMORE

MANY younger and less-well-known people have more valuable input! Invite them!!

@wxcafe you just don't know how to appreaciate techbro fine art

@wxcafe they'll finally release a stable GNU/HURD in 2087 and then you'll be sorry!

@wxcafe I think that the opposition between Free Software and the ideal?s of the FSF are worth being clarified and explained, especially when corporate entities like Google, Microsoft, etc. claim to be in favour of "Open Source".

But that's just an opinion.

@zge I think this has been 10000% explained to every fucking person over the last 30 years, but even if it hadn't been there are other people who can do it.

@wxcafe But as a historic figure and first-hand actor in the fight for free software, RMS isn't bad either, imo.

He's not orthodox, but he's still interesting.

@zge he is definitely a bad figure. he defends pedophilia.....

and even if he weren't, what's the point of keeping the guy around if all he's doing is standing there. he hasn't done anything except give talks in 30 years. let's have other people who are doing stuff right now as public figures if we need them

@wxcafe I'm most certainly not going to defend his wierd thoughs sexuality, hygene, or whatever. I don't really care about these things, as long as it doesn't become an issue, for example at an event.

I don't think that it's fair to say "he's just been standing around", but nevermind that. If the topic is free software, privacy issues, software activism, lisp, etc. and RMS *could* be invited, I don't see why he should be. If the topic is "victims of child molestation", then don't. If the topic is something pro-Amazon/Microsoft/Google, then don't.

Dismissing his historical first-hand experience and critical position in the free software movement, because he's a "bad figure", just screeches of ulterior motivations, and general bad faith arguments.

@zge ah, right, ulterior motivations like having other people who actually do open-source work talk about open-source.

@wxcafe @zge s/open source/free software/ ?
Anyways, I do hope there are people who can explain things as well or better as he does, but if there aren't.... well. Like, I really hope there is someone who can explain all these topics as well as they are explained here:

@wxcafe no 👏 rms 👏 daddy 👏 is 👏 cute 👏 and 👏 valid
@wxcafe as much as I might not like him the stuff he is saying is more important than ever. And yes, younger and less-known people should carry this on.

@saper the stuff he is saying is 30 years old and completely outdated. it is useless to relate to today's world. He's also the worst fucking person to defend any ideology.

And yes, there are other people who can do the work way better and who actually do other things with their life

@wxcafe Why is it completely outdated?

I happen to know people who relucantly agreed to come to his lecture and after this started saying, "you know, this guy is right". Despite him being, well, rms.

@saper free software isn't the most important part of software liberty for most people anymore, online services are.

but once again, it's great that you've brought people into open-source via rms? but that could have worked with someone else (possibly better), and *that* would have given power to someone else

@wxcafe Aren't online services run by software, too? rms is basically not a big fan of the Internet, if that's what you mean. But this is not a problem with rms and his idea of free society; it is a problem with oneline services.

What I meant is not about free software or not; it was about having slightly relucant position towards Stallman and changing one's attitude after actually listening to him.

@saper yes for example google runs pretty much only on free software. boom, done, the world is fixed, privacy restored to everyone!

once again this could have been done with litterally anyone else than stallman.

@saper my point is that it doesn't matter. but yes they mostly do run free software because everyone mostly runs free software.

@wxcafe That's not true. Where is Youtube source code and build instructions? Even Android is not.

@saper look I'm not trying to have a conversation about open-source here but android is a very clear argument for why "free software" isn't a good enough answer. it started as fully FOSS and now basically nobody actually runs free android.

if youtube's code were free it wouldn't change a thing, people would still use and I mean even then you can't prove the website actually runs the code you're seeing in the repo so

@saper my point here being we need something else than stallman's "oh if everyone were using free software everything would be good!" because that's politically void, and it's evidently not true

and EVEN IF you wanna hear that *why* hear it from stallman

@wxcafe I don't think this is his point. Maybe you should really attend his talk :)

@saper also you still haven't seen my point and you've derived the conversation towards open-source where it's clearly not about that so 🤷

@wxcafe free software, if you prefer to talk about stallman :)

Him being annoying does not mean he is not right. It is a very fine and important distinction.

@saper I didn't say he was annoying, and him being wrong isn't part of my point. Him hogging all the public attention and speaking time at the detriment of both the variety and quality of arguments and the people who actually build free and open-source software, and work towards privacy and software freedom, is my point.

@wxcafe Good, that's better. So I have good news for you: at the end of his every talk he calls for other people to take the stock and continue his work.


@wxcafe @saper just because you disagree with him doesn't mean he should be silenced. Unless you're just bitter because you'd like to be invited to speak instead.

@saper @wxcafe

Exhibit A:

> I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly.

@wxcafe I'd rather hear rms say the same shit about privacy and freedom he's been saying for decades than a corporate mouthpiece talk about utilizing the power of the cloud.

@a_cat okay sorry I'm pretty stressed rn

Your comment makes no sense. I am not suggesting open-source conference start inviting corporate, because that's shit, and it's pretty evident from my post. I am suggesting rms should go away and other people should take his place

@a_cat also the stuff he's saying has been outdated for at least 10 years, maybe other people who have something more interesting to say should take his place and we could actually get somewhere further on that whole privacy and freedom thing.

@wxcafe I definitely agree that there's people who have things to say regarding the current state of technology who are not usually given a platform.

But I wouldn't say most of what he's been saying is outdated,;with the rise of US tech giants in the last decade, I'd say his talking points have only become more relevant.

@a_cat @wxcafe
I'd rather have someone deliver the free software message who hasn't helped drive women out of tech.
I'd rather have someone who hasn't declared that conference codes of conduct don't apply to him.
I'd rather have someone who cares more about spreading the word about free software than being the one to spread that word.

@wxcafe is there a reason you're yelling at people in the replies or uh

@wxcafe try not to take your stress out on other people, please

@wxcafe i mean the whole post is you yelling at people but also there were other replies where your tone felt pretty extreme

@nightpool I'm trying to have a serious discussion on this and people come back at me with meme and it's pretty disheartening and tiring.

I answered honestly to the people who looked like they were trying to answer honestly. I'm sorry

@wxcafe it's hard to have a serious discussion when you start with such a strident tone.

is there actual harm being done by inviting rms to conferences? is there evidence that, in the absence of rms, conferences would recruit less-well-known-people instead of asking tim o'reilly or guido or someone else?

@nightpool oh I'm 100% for not inviting them, or linus, or whoever else either. but yes if you don't invite them then you have to invite other people to fill the spots. that gives at least a chance to other people to get a slot.

@wxcafe so is your main complaint that RMS isn't giving younger advocates a chance to grow or that there are specific viewpoints he's not representing?

If it's the latter, wouldn't it be a better argument if you mentioned some of these specific viewpoints? "I think modern open-source conferences don't talk about [X] enough" is a much easier and value-neutral argument to make then "Y is bad (because they aren't Z which implies talking about X)".

@nightpool no, my point is that his business model is getting invited everywhere all the time, and he's had nothing interesting to say in at least 10, maybe 20 years, that he accepts pedophilia, **and** that he doesn't "represent some viewpoints". I can also make a post about how modern open-source conferences aren't good if you'd like, but that's not the point here. and once again, I'm talking about RMS here but it could be linus, o'reilly, applebaum (ugh), etc.

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