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reminder that the whole "paperclip optimization" problem (the idea that an AI could/would destroy humanity if you told it to optimize for something because it would become the most optimal path) is actually... already there. they're called companies. it's all called capitalism. it's destroying the environment and exploiting humanity to optimize for money for shareholders.

@wxcafe universal paperclips was about capitalism already

@wxcafe i highly recommend the actual play podcast "friends at the table" and particularly their cyberpunk season "counter/WEIGHT". no particular reason ;)

@wxcafe shareholders *and customers*. Where do you get your food? Who builds your computers and provides you with Internet?

Also, the nice thing about amoral processes is that you can get them to work for you by changing the rules of the game: carbon tax, UBI, and so on. (Easier said than done, though.)

@skybrian I'm too tired to explain that capitalism isn't necessary to have an economy, and that an economy isn't even necessary for production of goods and services, or that regulated capitalism isn't possible, sorry

@wxcafe too bad, sometime I'd like to find someone who can go in depth about some alternative systems.

Like, how much is different? Do alternative systems still have money and prices? And so on.

@wxcafe cool, happy to hear any reading suggestions you might have. Anything you particularly like?

@wxcafe @skybrian Sorry to interject here, but to say an economy isn't necessary for the production of goods and services is as if you are saying a biosphere is not necessary for the propagation of life.

@wxcafe Capitalism can only do that because it is propped up by a structure of rules and their enforcement which the capitalists have twisted to service their agenda. It can be demonstrated with undergraduate level microeconomics that capitalism is not optimal, and neither would the highly hypothetical paperclip maximiser be.

@wxcafe Tiens, plus léger (j'ai pas super envie de débattre sur ça, de toutes façons); mais tu savais qu'il y avait un iddle game autour de ça justement ? C'est decisionproblem.com/paperclips et c'est plutôt rigolo (et contrairement à pas mal d'iddle games, il se finit en quelques heures).

@wxcafe Capitalists Still Puzzled About How to Solve Problems Inherent to Capitalism

@wxcafe number one argument against ancaps all embracing faith in The Market

@wxcafe This is why I keep saying we need an alternate cyberspace architecture. Beause this can be stopped only with such thing.

@wxcafe Also, Paperclips is a really fun game. (Seriously.)

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